Cardwell & Flanagan (2003) Psychology AS, Nelson Thornes, pg. 159
Before exploring this in psychological terms, what is your reaction to this debate?
- Using your own experiences to date do you believe your current behaviour is due to biological or environmental factors?
Answer the above question by responding to this post.
When you post a comment, tick the anonymous box and then finish your response with your first name and class only.
Please remember all comments are moderated.
70 comments:
I think we are a combination of nature and nurture - that is we are born with certain characteristics and personality traits, but our upbringing and experiences also play a huge part on who we are.
Ms Yates
I think that nurture is more of an influential factor than nature, but both play an essential part. I know that I myself have changed personalities in response to various events during the course of my life, one main example being moving from New Zealand (where I had spent 10 years of my life) to Australia.
Cameron
10H
"Using your own experiences to date do you believe your current behaviour is due to biological or environmental factors?"
Well, It's an obvious combination of the two, both nature and nurture play a huge role in who we are,when born, of course we have different hormone levels, different tendencies. I myself am pretty hyperactive, which of course means that would influence what friends I would make. Whereas on the nature side, I move a lot, I've lived in tons of countries, from india, bahrain, to canada and more, and I beleive this really has made me different, when you move as much as I do, you need to be able to make friends, which is something you pick up. SO, though we ARE born with certain characteristics, in NORMAL circumstances you could change those charecteristics, though in others (like psychotics and people with fetal alcohol syndrome) cant be changed. Nurture plays the biggest part of being raised in my opinion, and had I not moved so much, I wouldn't be me.
-Duncan 10K
I think there's no way to -really- know whether nature or nurture is more prevalent in producing who we are because there is no way to go back in time and see what happens if we make a different choice, or if a particular incident of our lives does or doesn't make us very different.
That said, I do think that while our personality may be something in particular at birth, depending on how we grow up it may change. In my family, we are all quite stubborn, which may be a result of our genetics, or it may simply be a result of being brought up with people who act in a particular way.
Krysia, 10S
I think that some specific traits rely on nature and others rely on nurture. The main things that i belive is highly reliant on the way we are brought up, is our personality.
For me, my sisters have had a huge influence on me throughout my life. When i was younger looked at them as my role models, for the way i dressed, acted or sometimes my interests. If i had not had these sisters, i would not have been the person that i am today.
Beth
For me i believe that it is a bit of both nature snd nuture. My parents help me in my schoolwork and push me to do my best and i am also sent to a private school which is nuture, however, if my parents were not as clever and as wise i think that i may be demotivated and may have not realised what is what and maybe would not have the opportunity to go tho the school that i am as they could maybe have not afford it as they would not of had the job oppurtunities that they have.
I believe it is a bit of both- nature and nurture- as i believe i am me due to my genes and DNA, although I also believe that my personal experiances have shaped me and helped me become who i am today. However, if i had to choose one, i think it would be more nurture as i think my family, friends, peers and teachers have
had such an impact on my life and therefore i dont believe i would be the same person if it wasn't for them and the environments i grew up in. Mardi 10E
Although I am, of course, a product of both nature and nurture, I am more inclined to think that environmental factors strongly influenced who I am today.
Well, my family always made me study super hard and would get SO mad at me if I did badly at school. I was actually really bad at maths in primary school, except, then I joined this maths tuition thing and I'm a lot better!
Let me know what you think. :]
Rohit. 10B.
In my life it would appear that 'nature' is more likely to be what makes me who I am today, rather than nurture. I say this because I see the same attitudes and behaviours in my immediate family, extended family and myself. This leads me to believe that I was born with what I have today, just like the rest of my family. Though it is possible that we have all lived in the same conditions, leading us to behave in the same way?
Peta, 10L
Just a question ? does anyone lean more towards one side than another, if so why
sagar
Just a question ? does anyone lean more towards one side than another, if so why
sagar
I agree with krysia however, if i could imagine which road i would chose that has guided me te mostt it would have been nuture. the environment has a huge impact on how one acts, the can either motovate or demotivate you and the way you approach things.... family and friends and aquantincs (if that is how u spell it) shape who you are.
Ashleigh
In response to Peta's comment.
I reckon that it is likely that you are all the same way because you have all been brought up with the same morals, beliefs, etc. Unless under unusual circumstances, your parents would have treated all the children in the same way.
Beth
i believe that there is a mixture of both nature and nurture that defines us and our personalities...
here are some examples..
nature:
i beleive that you are born with some sort of genes that might enable you to be better at certain things than other people.. this could be due to your parents abilities....for example mum is really good at picking up music and tune... so am i,, she can see things really photographic in her mind.. so do i
this however links largely into how you are brought up.. it is one thing to possibly be born with certain abilities however i beleive, how you are brought up plays a huge role...
a big example of this for myself (how my attitude is) and for many others around the world, is of money...
i once saw that successful people in life, brought up with alot of money and things they always wanted, were more willing to spend carelessly and overspend. people coming from an average family were more money wise, even if they had alot of it.
How i was brought up and my parents, from their background overseas, played a big role in how i view life and what i have now, and how i treat the things i own.
also how my parents worked at schools affects by attitude towards school greatly, and leads me in how i should be...
Anthony 10K
My personal belief is that a person is a product of their genes and the environment they experience while growing up. A person is a product of nature that is influenced by nurture. An example would be that a person genetically could inherit intelligent problem solving genes but if their intelligence is not cultivated and nurtured, it can affect their self esteem and therefore they can nearly eradicate the ability because of their belief of self worth. In the nature side they would have been born with an advantage but if it is not nurtured the advantage is lost.I believe that nature is an important part but the nurturing part is vital.
Alka 10J
Well I would say that my behaviour has formed through both nature and nurture.
I think nature has played quite a large part in a lot of my behaviours. I act alot like my mum sometimes, but I wonder whether it's through how she bought me up that I act like her.
Nurture has also played a part in my musicality. My parents aren't very musical and before I was about 3 I never really cared about music. But when I joined singing lessons with because my brother had, I began to really get into music. And throughout school I've always been getting into more musical things.
I think that nurture can play a big part in your personality. For example if I had been brought up in Hong Kong I would act very differently. And even in the past I've found my personality changing through my experiences, such as arguements with people and things I've seen that I do or don't aspire to.
Heidi 10f
Who we are is determined by nature who we become is determined by nuture
Sagar
I belive that we are a combiation of both nature and nurture however one is always more dominant.
For me, nurture is the leading one.
My brother has effected the person i have become and am still becoming by the bad things he has done.
This is because i saw how what he did made my family and his friends sad and i knew that i didnt want to make people feel that way.
Well that is a verygood question there Peta, that is difficult isn't it. But i believe that it could be more likley on the nuture side as your parents have raised you the same way as you were raised like-wise your extended family. If you were not raised the way you were and were adopted, do you think you will have the same approach to life and values as you family??
Ashleigh
I belive Nuture influences nature. For exemple I was very a headstrng child. I had strong opinions. I could have inherrited this triat from my mum who was much the same. After I went to school I learned that not everybody responed well to my opinions and so I dramatically changed. I became more concerned with opinoins of those around me becuase other accepted that more.
Alina 10M
Rohit, on the facts of what you said, I believe that it is nuture, if your parents did not push you, you would not be where you are, if you were not sent to the maths tution you would not have accomplisheed what you have.
ashleigh 10c
Peta, i agree with your points about how you believe nature has effected you more as you and your family are quite similar. However, this could also be nurture, as you are all quite similar, then that could be a result of how you were nurtured and therefore nuture is what mainly shaped your current behaviour. i think that makes sense? Mardi 10E
I think that my current behaviour is more due to the effects of environment than biological factors. The education and personal experiences I went through have change the way I think and the way I have developed. For example on the topic of manners, I was born as a angry and violent child. My mum told me that I used to slap people I wasn't happy with. But after my parents teaching and other learning, I have learnt that it is not correct to do that. Therefore according to my parents I have changed a lot in my behaviour to more a happy person. However I believe that biological factors also affect our current behaviour. For example I have two brothers and a sister. All of us learn different things easier than others and are interested in different area. I believe that it comes from nature. However I think that both nature and nurture affect of who we are.
Flora
'It is not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us.'
...yeah. That's my two cents for the day.
:D
Jonathan, 10S.
My opinion is that life and all things associated with it... past, present and future were all determined at the instance that the universe was created. From this i think that the main answer in my mind (not nesessarily the right one) is that nature has a complete impact on the outcomes of every situation and event that has ever and will ever occur (destiny).
- Matt 10 F -
I believe that who we are today and who we will continue to grow up as is contributed to by both nature and nurture. In my own case, i can see where nature has shaped me to be who i am in such ways as personality. I have been told that i act like my grandmother (who i have never met) in such ways as my stubbornness, although that could also be contributed to by nurture from my mother. Nurture also contributes greatly to the ways we act. My mother and father act differently and deal with situations differently than me because i was brought up in a different community, country and time. I think it would be interesting to see if we were all to be brought up differently would we be anything like who we are today.
Elspeth
But, Beth, influences within your family are not the only thing. There's also friends and I'm pretty sure that not every family member has the same friends! I'm sure they also don't have the same role models and other environmental influences.
Rohit. 10B.
It also depends on which aspect of someone's life one is looking at: physical appearance, for one thing, is almost entirely physical (hair colour, eye colour, height etc) although it can be modified by physical activities, haircuts, hair dye etc. Things like personality would be more centred on nurture (I think) since people essentially act in a way that has been defined by what has happened to them.
Cameron
10H
you are so right there alka... i fully agree way to go!!!
ashleigh 10c
I agree with maddie in that either nature or nurture is more dominant in a person. Because we can't have 50/50 right?
Sagar
Beth, I'm not sure whether personality/interests effected that much by parents. For example, my brother and I were both brought up by a very musical family, and we both learned three or four instruments to degree and sang in a choir. However, my brother has dropped all of his instruments except one which he is forced to do and no longer sings in a choir. I however still play four instruments and sing in 2-4 choirs. Why does he not share the same passion for music after the same upbringing?
Jess
In response to Peta's comment, assuming that it was actually possible to have everyone experience the exact same things in life, and perhaps to be able to view what each experience does, and taking the stance of a Behaviouralist, couldn't it be possible to predetermine everyone's course in life to create an ideal race of humans?
Doesn't behaviourism suggest that if nurture plays no part in who we become, one can essentially control and dominate people through a very strict doctrine or set of rules?
Krysia, 10S
I disagree Sagar. You said that all of your future characteristics is determined by nurture. Some future characteristics are determined by genetics. For example you could be suffer from chronic fatige later in life.
Since Mrs O'Neil wants someone to swing, I'm going nuture
there i did it!!!!!!!!!
sagar
Alina, i strongly agree with you as the school environment can change personalities so it can be formed upon the idea of nurture although, being the headstrong person you are it could have been also ur opinion not to change ur ways to relate and this can be the nature aspect.
Alka 10J
sagar,
i think i lean more towards nurture.
this would be because i believe that nurture has impacted my life more and shaped me to become who i am.
for instance i am from Moree which is in the country and i believe my experiances from the country have impacted me and i dont think that i would have the same values and beliefs if i hadnt grown up out in the country.
what do you guys think?
mardi 10E
I think that it is a bit of both, but mostly NURTURE. Like, you’re born with your physical appearance and genes and all that stuff but I know that the way I interact with the world is totally to do with the way I have been raised up.
My mum left my dad when I was a little older than one and I have never really had a father figure growing up because mum never remarried. I don’t see my dad very much and I don’t like him either because he hasn’t been a good father to me over the years of my life, so that has probably influenced the way I interact and think about adult males. While I still have my grandpa and my uncles on my mum’s side (I don’t have much to do with my dad’s side), I don’t see 3 of my uncles very often – only for family gatherings – and I don’t have a very good relationship with my other uncle.
So being brought up with a small amount of male influence in my life has probably affected who I am today.
Maddy 10D
Ok it's obvious that both nature and nurture play a big role in making us who we are, But does a person ever really know who we are? I don't think we can ever know because it's always changing. So if who we are is always changing that would mean Nurture must be more influencial becuase Nature means no changing. right?
Alina 10M
If we replicated our experiences and gave them to another person at birth would they become us for that moment?
sagar
I believe that NURTURE makes us what and who we are today. If it were not for the environment, oppurtunities and accomplishments that I have had and lived with during my life time I would not be the person I am today. Some things shape us differently; say parents splitting up can make one person stronger in their relationships where as it could also make another more timid and afraid.
Growing up, my siblings and I have played alot of sport. And we're not bad at what we do. We do alot and we have fun doing it. But my dad was the most uncoordinated worst sporting person imaginable. My mum on the other hand was good at gymnastics and jumps in athletics. None of my siblings can jump -we are all horribly inflexble and we just dont do jumps. The achievments I have accomplished in my sporting time have all been achieved through the support and encouragement I have recieved throughout from parents, friends, family and even complete strangers. Without Nurture I highly doubt I would be the person I am today -nature, I believe has played little part in mine or my siblings sporting abilities.
Another point. My brothers are some of the rudest creeps you will meet and they are only 10 and 7. I believe that their continuous swearing is a result of their school environment because I know that before they were born my family didnt ever swear or use bad language. (My parents, my sister and I still dont). I also believe now that they do swear as much as they do and my mum has stopped picking them up on it, thay accept it as a norm and I know for a fact that they swear alot with their friends. So this, I believe is a oproduct of NURTURE in the peer form.
So those are my main reasons influencing me to believe that we are a product of NURTURE.
I hope all that made sense :)
-Sarah 10J
Sagar - why CAN'T we have 50/50? (Although I am more heavily in favour of nurture).
Cameron
10H
Jonathan, what the?
Anyway, I would more go on the nature side, because though nurture plays a HUGE part, all your actions, well, the way you act
is to do with your hormones, how angry you are, how happy you are etc etc.. All of these actions are genetic, and INFLUENCE nurture in the end, because though we learn as we go, it is how we are already that defines how we will learn and perceive.
-Duncan 10k
It seems that most of what we become and who we are has been formed by nurture.
Even though we seem to have inherited traits from our relatives but it may be that we pick up the behaviours.
another thing with nurture is my japanese friend who used to come to school here and we were friends with an american who had a very heavy american accent. Over time we noticed that she actually picked up the american accent.
Heidi 10F
Very Philisophical Jono,
Although, how can someone perform an action without using what's underneath (eg: Genetics). Would that person have a genetic desposition to performing that action that would "define" them?
- Matt 10 F -
Sagar and Maddie, it will fall into personality to which you are more dominant in, either nature or nurture. this can display that personality falls into both categories of nature and nurture.
Alka 10J
What an interesting idea, Sagar and Maddie! That the combination of nature and nurture is different for each person. I agree with that after thinking about it. But does that mean that there are both ends of the spectrum? Some people could be 100% nature or 100% nurture then.
Rohit. 10B.
Alina I agree with your idea that nurture influences nature. Though this only works to a certain extent.
Nurture can't affect the nature of the following generation. Taking other factors out of the situation, if you had a child or were cloned that individual would be head strong not considerate of others opinions.
Here is why:
Lemark was a French biologist who believed that evolution occurred through characteristics that were acquired in the previous generation and passed on to the next.
This has since been proven wrong in favour of Darwin's theory of evolution.
Angus 10K
I think Jonathan's quote is kind of related to Nurture. The part where it says underneaths it's more talking about our gentics and what our parents gave us. The other part is saying that we are who we are by our own experiences. Thats what I think. :D
Flora 10R
Elspeth made me think of the kids in orphanage that they are all brought up in the same way (similar) and with different genetics; but you can see that they all have different personalities. They do act very similar, for example, a lot of time they are afraid to love someone, because they have never been loved by their parents before. However you still can see their individual personalities in little actions, for example some will be very determine about doing something, but others will just easily give up. So I think that nurture have a bigger role in determining who we are because it influences us from the minute we born but our DNA is just something that’s given to you from your parents and you can change that through education, environment etc. (like your intelligence, behaviour) That’s what I think anyway, I don’t know why everyone else think?
Flora 10R
I think I have been shaped more by biological influences than environmental factors. This is because I am adopted and I have found my birth mother. When we met and compared our similarities to each other it was amazing, simple things like my love of purple and cats were the same. I did not meet her until I was 20. I was also an extravert in a family of intraverts. I did not adapt my natural outgoing personality to fit in with thiers. These are just a few reasons why I am on this side of the debate.
Ms.Coleshill
Duncan, I don't exactly agree with you saying that how you act and what you do is to do with your hormone and you think that is all due to nature of your genetics. But your hormone is affected by the environment. Although that genetics have an effect on the amount of hormone you produce but it’s more coming from the effect of the environment. Demands for certain substances vary in an organism’s daily function and lifecycle. "Demands for certain substances vary in an organism’s daily function and lifecycle. For instance adolescence in humans requires the production of gonadotrophic hormones, hormones that target the sex organs at that time of maturing in the body"(Scientific American, 2000) and where the part where DNA comes in is the part is when, "The demand is realised and genes are switched on to code for the induction and secretion of hormones involved in growth of the organism" ( Scientific American, 2000) So this showed that it the hormones production is due to our daily function and lifecycle. :D Hope this makes sense
Flora 10R
Bibliography
Scientific American (2000) Hormone Production (Internet) Available from: http://www.biology-online.org/3/3_hormone_production.htm (accessed date: 10.10.08)
Nurture is more the way to go, because when you are born, you do have some of your personality, but it is really the people and events in your lif that effect who you are.
For example, I have moved around Australia alot, and I can make friends pretty easily when I want to, but if i had never had to move, my intraverted nature would have meant that I would have had a hard time making friends when i had moved schools.
Ben P, 10R
In response to sagar's things about replicating your experiences and giving them to another person (assuming everything happened at the same time)
Well they wouldn't be exactly the same because when we are born we already have a personality that may affect the way we perceive things that we experience. Like a baby has a personality from the very beginning in the way it interacts with it's parents and surroundings. It may hear a bell and think it's a nice lovely sound while another baby hearing the exact same sound might think that it was an annoying distraction.
So nuture is playing apart in all our lives.
But I also think it depends on the age of the person. A week old baby will mostly be shaped by nature but by the time the baby is 10 days old nurture will have started to take the lead in many things.
I was also thinking about animal, in particular the ones that are left by their parents at or even before birth, for example turtles. When they hatch from their eggs their mother has long been gone but they still crawl towards the sunlight into the ocean. Would it be nature that lead them to do this, because their appears to be no nurture influence?
Heidi 10F
In response to Angus; I was just wondering do you think nature is more influencail nurture? If so why?
Well, I think you are wrong about Nuture not effecting the nature next generation, because parents raise their children and enforce some of their values and beliefs on their children. This will be passed on and on. How you are raised must have some effect on who you become and who your children become, right?
Alina 10M
I believe that different things are affected by nature and nurture. For instance my brother is adopted and has never met his birth parents, but he still has the same manners and interacts with the world in the same way as me and our parents. This could show how nurture has affected him. But nature seems to have affected him in what interests he has. My parents and I have interests in more science and maths and are more academic, while he works better outside and has interests in more physical things. I think it is interesting to compare me and my brother to see how nature and nurture affects different aspects of our personality.
Elspeth 10M
I find the comments about adoptive children particularly interesting, because they provide some definite clues as to things that were produced by nature or nurture, whereas, in many other familial situations, ones attributes can't be easily defined as being caused by nature or nurture.
Krysia, 10S
my views on this topic is similar to almost everyone else - i believe that both nature and nurture make us who we are. i also believe that our nature can influence our nurture. here is an example:
if someone was extremely tall, which is a biological factor, their parents might get theminto basketball, or netball and by playing in a team, they may then be influenced by their teammates, and this would help make them who they are. also, playing in a team would also affect your personality, you may be more patient, or you may better social skills, leadership abilities, etc.
this is an example of how nature influences nurture.
Elisheba 10e
[with some help from Rohit, Heidi and Sagar]
The main point is, it is easy to say that there is a combination of natuer and nurture, as many have. To sit on the fence is easy, but because of evidence I would have to say nature plays the biggest part in development.
Elisheba - had the girl not been tall could she not have played basketball? Just because someone is tall does not mean they will be good at sports, there is baseline skill involved. Take Earl Boykins for example, he is FIVE FOOT FIVE and can still play basketball at a professional league, and be thought a very good player.
How you are born does affect the things you will do in life. Experiences are null and void, some people have horrible childhoods and grow up fine, my mum is an example. If the figurative basketball player Elisheba spoke of had a bad attitude, or a bad personality, traits of nature, the experience on the team would NOT have been good. A team is a group of people who get along and are able to play together, just being tall does not mean you will be a good basketball player. Just being tall does not mean you will get on a team and be shaped as a person from taht team.
There are too many figurative examples, there needs to be sufficiant evidence that nurture plays a bigger part on who we are on this blog. I beleive that personailty is determined by nature, it is who we are, and is much more important than physical attributes. Attributes that we are born with CAN affect what we do, and DO affect who we are. It is because of this that a figuritive example as Elisheba used cannot be used as evidence as there is no backing to how a tall person can join a team and get shaped by their experience there, they may not even have skills in the game after all...
Duncan Stewart 10k (this will probably be seen as an Elisheba Post Hate Speech)
I'm going to put my two cents into this discussion and agree with Duncan for the moment, in saying that nurture plays an important part in a person's personality, as you often hear of mothers describing the personality of their child. For example, my mother said that my brother -loved- to eat, and was somewhat demanding, while I was more passive, etc.
I am not that quick to discount nurture's effect on personality, either, but I do think that a person's basic nature will affect how they react and grow as a result of particular experiences in their life. To use the example of Duncan's mother, who grew up fine despite her experiences, perhaps her nature let her grow beyond that and learn from it.
Hrmm, maybe this too is just adding to the figurative posts that Duncan says we have too many of, but I'm just throwing ideas around. And maybe I'm also just happy to find someone else who believes in nature!
Krysia, 10S
My Dearest Duncan,
Although the points you have raised are somewhat valid, you have forgotton to take into account a number of factors. Furthermore, most of your points are completely irrelevent to the situation that Elisheba has raised.
Firstly, Elisheba was only using the example of a basketball player to outline how nature, in this case height, may cause someone's -parents- to enroll them in basketball. The hypothetical situation is past this point completely irrelevent to height. Elisheba goes on to state how it is the experiences in the basketball team which would shape someone.
Also, at the start of your comment, you said it is easy to be on the fence between nature and nurture. The reason that many people lie on this fence is because of the fact that the two topics are so closely linked that they overlap. It is a combination of the two that creates who we are.
Going back to Elisheba's example, we see that it is nature that makes you your height. It is your experiences that make you who you are. A good example is how your height can change based on environmental factors and dietary habits. BBC News states that such influences can cause your height to deviate by 5.4 cm for boys and 6.8 cm for girls, in either direction.
Perhaps it is more the way you look (not including how you dress) that is biological factors. Of course things like hair colour, skin colour, eye colour etc are all biological; it is, however, the way you are brought up, what you are exposed to, the people you meet, the places you live etc that influence who you -choose- to be.
I do agree with you on one point. That is, that two people who go through the same nurture can turn out very different. This is maybe indicative of nature. But remember again, that it is nigh impossible for two people to have the same experiences and past experiences will mold your future experiences.
Going back to your example, you said that a person with a bad attitude would get less out of basketball then someone with a positive attitude. You have pointed out that attitude is a factor of nature. I do not fully believe this is the case. Take for example someone who has negative experiences, like an abusive father or traumatic childhood experiences, may adopt a negative tendancy.
Maybe it is that you have a certain biological disposition and your experiences cause you to deviate from this disposition and shape who you are.
Sorry Duncan, I did not mean to make this a "Post Hate Speech".
<3 Rohit. 10B.
Dearest Rohit,
I concur
Cameron
10H
Basically, Rohit has stated all the points that I would have made had I known that THIS particular topic still had ongoing debate, but with a few small differences:
2 people with the same upbringing having the same persona. You say that this isn't possible, but PROVIDED neither of them was an anomaly in the human race - too tall, too short, too ugly, too attractive, disabled, or super-able, I would say that they would develop an almost identical persona. I used to theorise that if you had two people in separate boxes, and each one was fed the same amount of food at the same time in the same place, and then you applied a laser to their skin, would they say "OW" in exactly the same way? (I was only 8, before you decide to complain about my barbarism).
I think that if you are raised in a literally identicaly way to someone else, then you will turn out like them. Look at St Peters - people that go here are (WITH EXCEPTIONS - I know there are those here who are on scholarships, or who sacrifice a large amount of their income to come here) in the upper quadrant of the socio-economic status, and because of that, most of us have somewhat similar personas. I know kids from other schools who wouldn't fit in here, simply because they are raised in far different conditions to us. The change in atmosphere between my primary school, which was public, and my middle school, which was private (in NZ) was incredible.
Just my two cents...
(Actual finish)
10H
I think the basketball argument is not necessarily widely applicable. One does not have to be tall for one's parents to enroll a child in basketball, in which case I believe that nature may have no relevance in that case. Also, Rohit said that height can deviate from ~5-7 cm in which case their height may be due to their diet, etc. Please come up with a new argument for nature influencing nurture :P
Krysia Choros 10S
"the way you are brought up, what you are exposed to, the people you meet, the places you live etc that influence who you -choose- to be."
I cannot see this post as valid as I do not agree that you choose who you are. Your personailty is what you are born with and yes i do mostly beleive that "Maybe it is that you have a certain biological disposition and your experiences cause you to deviate from this disposition and shape who you are." The point is that there is already a disposition when we are bornk, Dr David Keirsey would agree, saying there are 16 distinct personality groups that we are clasified in, and though experiences change us, we have a frame of mind and WAY OF THINKING that causes us to react to different situations. As such, the same situation could be seen either good or bad, such as when a teacher tells a child off, some are disposed to thinking that the teacher hates them, others realize they have done things wrong. Competitivness, aggression are all linked to nature. Take the example of a person with fetal alcohol syndrome, or even psychopaths, they are overly violent, inconsiderate of their way of being raised, the simple fact that levels of testosterone and subsequent aggression can be altered at birth, shows a clear link between aggression and your psyche.
Another point that should be raised is the fact that most people are raised in semi-"normal" (stereotypically) ways. Though there are some horror stories that get posted as articles because of the shock factor, the majority of cases are not reported, and the children would grow up fine, IE my mother.
When looking at the bad, which are the minority of cases you can easily find some evidence. All the things I have stated are in the state of mind that most people will react in this way, that MOST people have a pre-disposure when it comes to personality etc,, of course some peoples life influences will change them. The point is they may not, and I beleive mostly DO NOT.
Duncan 10k
Unrelatedly, what is the definition between nature and nurture? From birth, from conception? In nature, what affects how we are born - our genetics or the way that our brain has developed as we grow in the womb, the way that all the synapses and nerves have connected? Is nurture solely our experiences?
Basically, we see nature as genetics and nurture as experiences, but is there anything left that we haven't categorised and we should think of?
Krysia, 10S
Ok, this is rubbish but here we go....
I propose that our adaptation to adapt to our enviroment and being influenced by our experiences is a biological process that stems from nature.
I'll add more but I'd like to see your opinions.
Cheers.
Sean P
To agree with Duncan again, certainly we have heard of cases where abused children have been negatively affected by that, but what about abused children who, growing up fine, then make a conscious effort to be aware of how they, when older, parent their own children, a conscious effort, or what about a child who, exposed to alcoholic parents, vows never to touch the bottle and then maybe themself becomes an alcoholic despite that, something they just can't change?
I'm agree with Duncan where he says that you do not choose who you are, or who you will become, just by willing it. I know there are several points of my character which I wish were different, but I don't believe I can choose to change them, I can only be conscious of my actions, and there are some points of my character which I believe I didn't choose and just accept as me. Another argument for this would be people with depression, where they can't just 'snap out of it' even if they wanted to.
Krysia, 10S
My learned friend Duncan,
The Keirsey Temperament Sorter which you have mentioned is, like the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, only designed to "help people better understand themselves". It varies highly and cannot be used to define someone's personality in its entirety. People's personalities, furthermore, change as they go through different stages of development, which can be seen in Piaget's theory.
Saying that foetal alcohol syndrome causes children to be violent is not a valid argument, since being surrounded by alcohol which is absorbed by osmosis is a product of your life while still inside the womb before you are 'bornk', and not a genetic inheritance. FAS is also more likely to occur in alcoholic families, which means that the overt violence can be put down to Social Learning Theory which states that we pick up violence by watching others (in this case, our parents).
You can't say that most people are raised in "semi-normal" or "stereotypical" ways without defining what these are. Perhaps you should tell us what constitutes "normal" for you.
Admittedly, even if a high percentage of people who have bad childhood experiences do NOT develop negative tendencies, I would say they are definitely MORE likely to develop negative tendencies than positive ones.
Every experience you go through will change you and form you as a person. You say that everyone has a predisposition that causes them to learn in a certain way and if they are raised "normally" then they will react to outside stimulus and grow in the same way. How can that be the case as every person is different? Taking a Behaviouralistic view, you may be born a certain way except everything shapes you. There is no way to prove this as, contrary to what you have said, every person goes through a different upbringing. Even minor nuances can cause huge differences in a person's character.
2 years ago, I (Cameron) watched a video which explained how many people with the same order of birth (e.g. first child, second child) display an uncanny amount of similar characteristics. The same can be applied to me and my sister. While I am quiet, studious, the model of a perfect student, my sister is loud, and far more social than me, as well as being more outgoing. Since we share the same genetics, how can it be argued that nature is the cause of our differences?
By the way, it's spelt believe.
<3 Rohit and Cameron.
Woops, would it not be that it is our enviroment that caused our very biological nature, that very biology stems from our enviroment, and thus nature stems from nurture and what we are is due to our enviroment?
Questioning his own opinion
Sean Patton
Order of birth can be misinterpreted. It could be a nature thing related to how you were born, or a nurture thing related to the way you're brought up.
I think my family has different order-of-birth stereotypes - my brother, the first, he is quite social, outgoing, and seems to prefer that to study (although he's still very good in what he does) wheras I, the second-born, would probably be more of the student-type, being far less social than he.
Krysia, 10S
"The same can be applied to me and my sister. While I am quiet, studious, the model of a perfect student, my sister is loud, and far more social than me, as well as being more outgoing. Since we share the same genetics, how can it be argued that nature is the cause of our differences?"
You may be similiar by genes but no individual human being undergoes the same variables, nutrition, or just influence to external stimuli. The reason why you and your sister is so different because of nurture. Most parents experiment and make mistakes when raising their first child. Your sister may be different in behaviour because she's crying out for independence. She doesnt want to be recognized as 'the cute litte sister'. You may have received the same education (though the qualitiy is questionable, in regards to teachers and peers), but who you associate with and how you live is YOUR. DECISION.
For you nature-junkies, you wouldnt be the same unless due to the fact that the creation of humans is not a machine. Things do go wrong, things dont always follow a specific timeframe. Plus, your difference in gender would trigger off different thought processes as studies have shown that females use both hemispheres of the brain whilst males only use one.
Jonathan Sung 10S.
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